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  • New 60lb rule

    AA Board has decided to apply the 60lb peak weight limit to ALL BOW types, not just Compound.

    1) Why?
    2) How will this be enforced?
    Archery's a lot like Life .... a few see it as an opportunity to score cheap points; while the rest are focused on the ends that count.
    Genesis 21:20 And God was with the boy as he grew up in the wilderness. He became a skillful archer.

  • #2
    (1) presumably someone thought it was an issue.

    (2) I will go with poorly, as it is now for compound.
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    • #3
      1) I've judged a lot of events and I have never seen a 60lb recurve. I have seen a few longbows that are nominally over 60lb, but very few would be shot at events. So what exactly is the issue they are trying to solve?

      2) How does a judge measure peak weight on a recurve or longbow given that it increases with draw length? Do we measure it at 26", 28", 30"? or do we get the archer to draw it back? How do we know that they are drawing it to their normal anchor point etc etc etc.

      3) "All bow type" would also include crossbows which currently have a limit of 96lb. So most current crossbows would not comply.

      Archery's a lot like Life .... a few see it as an opportunity to score cheap points; while the rest are focused on the ends that count.
      Genesis 21:20 And God was with the boy as he grew up in the wilderness. He became a skillful archer.

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      • #4
        1) I've judged a lot of events and I have never seen a 60lb recurve. I have seen a few longbows that are nominally over 60lb, but very few would be shot at events. So what exactly is the issue they are trying to solve?
        Trying to stop people shooting insane poundages, sometimes we must protect people from themselves
        There are people who shoot 60lb recurves


        2) How does a judge measure peak weight on a recurve or longbow given that it increases with draw length? Do we measure it at 26", 28", 30"? or do we get the archer to draw it back? How do we know that they are drawing it to their normal anchor point etc etc etc.
        Observing them during the day. If someone's bow is close to 60lb in inspection then watch them when they shoot

        3) "All bow type" would also include crossbows which currently have a limit of 96lb. So most current crossbows would not comply.
        A crossbow isn't an archery bow
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        • #5
          I came to the conclusion that the limit actually already applied to recurves and longbows anyway, but only purely by lack of rules saying that they weren't.

          Crossbows are pretty much always excluded from bows in all other aspects of legislation, so I wouldn't be too concerned that they're intentionally referenced in "All bows" if in fact, that's the actual wording.

          The thing with 60lb recurves and longbows is that:
          They take massive amounts of effort to shoot few arrows though. It is a brave and strong man (or woman) who would seek to use one in competition.
          Most importantly, they do less damage than a 60lb compound to target butts anyway. You'd possibly need a 90lb longbow or greater to get the same sort of energy into the arrow that a 60lb compound can do.

          If there is someone out there shooting FITA comps with a 80 or 90 lb longbow or recurve, Sir, (or Ma'am) I salute you. This rule is targetting your magnificence and you're being oppressed.
          You should appeal.
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          Performance cannot be purchased.

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          • #6
            Seems like another reactionary AA rule that does not address the real issue (like the arrow score change rule).
            Archery's a lot like Life .... a few see it as an opportunity to score cheap points; while the rest are focused on the ends that count.
            Genesis 21:20 And God was with the boy as he grew up in the wilderness. He became a skillful archer.

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            • #7
              How would you address the real issue? (And what is it?)
              Status is not defined by the amount of gear in your signature.
              Performance cannot be purchased.

              "The Internet offers everything - except quality control" - K. Anders Ericsson.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Andy! View Post
                How would you address the real issue? (And what is it?)
                It's not clear from the announcement in the recent Board News
                60lb DRAW WEIGHT ON ALL BOWS

                The AA Board agreed to introduce a 60 lb maximum peak draw weight into
                the AA rule book for all bow types.
                This is to be applied to all levels of competition and practice at club level and
                higher.
                It just states that this rule along with a "High Draw" rule are for safety purposes, but it doesn't explain why. Interestingly there is no "High Draw" rule. The current rule just states unsafe form in the opinion of the judge.

                These new rules are to apply at all levels, including club. So it will impact all of us.
                Archery's a lot like Life .... a few see it as an opportunity to score cheap points; while the rest are focused on the ends that count.
                Genesis 21:20 And God was with the boy as he grew up in the wilderness. He became a skillful archer.

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                • #9
                  I always thought that "high draw" was the action of someone drawing their bow over the target and if that arrow happened to accidently loose whilst being drawn, would go over the target and not hit the target at all. I've seen a few where they will raise their bow above the target and then settle on the middle of the target, then draw back the string. According to a judge (I asked someone about their draw one day) that action was ok and wasn't considered high draw. Leaving it up to the discretion of a judge on the day is stupid and is always open to different interpretations.

                  Also from some competitions that I have been in, the judges will have a bow scale and will get you to draw back your bow and measure the poundage to make sure you aren't over the 60Ib during bow inspection.
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by tigergirl View Post
                    I always thought that "high draw" was the action of someone drawing their bow over the target and if that arrow happened to accidently loose whilst being drawn, would go over the target and not hit the target at all. I've seen a few where they will raise their bow above the target and then settle on the middle of the target, then draw back the string. According to a judge (I asked someone about their draw one day) that action was ok and wasn't considered high draw. Leaving it up to the discretion of a judge on the day is stupid and is always open to different interpretations.
                    Actually, it's not that hard to discriminate a high draw from a high starting position. I'm totally down for letting judges decide on it because I haven't seen one get it wrong yet.
                    It's called "judge" because it's a judgement.
                    I would tell at least six people a year that their draw method will get them the attention of judges, if they ever intend shooting competition. All of them have been intending to, so have made the effort to draw horizontally. If you want to see a very useful reason to video someone, it's the best method to get someone to change.
                    You just say "Can you look at yourself and say that your draw will not not concern anyone, seeing how your arrow is half way back and angled well above the horizontal line of the roof behind you?"

                    When they can't give an answer, you just point out that they can either change it now, or in the middle of a competition.

                    Everyone so far has decided to work on it.
                    Status is not defined by the amount of gear in your signature.
                    Performance cannot be purchased.

                    "The Internet offers everything - except quality control" - K. Anders Ericsson.

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                    • #11
                      For those who can't be bothered to look up the rules, here is the actual wording of the so-called "High Draw" rules. Note the rule is different for Target and Field:

                      For Target:
                      12.9. The Director of Shooting shall be advised if an athlete, when drawing back the string of his bow uses any technique which, in the opinion of the Judges, could allow the arrow, if accidentally released, to fly beyond a safety zone or safety arrangements (overshoot area, net, wall etc.). If an athlete persists in using such a technique, he shall, in the interest of safety, be asked by the Chairperson of the Tournament Judge Commission or the Director of Shooting to stop shooting immediately and to leave the field.
                      For Field:
                      28.5. When drawing back the string of his bow an athlete shall not use any technique which, in the opinion of the Judges, could allow the arrow, if accidentally released, to fly beyond a safety zone or safety arrangements (overshoot area, net, wall, etc.). If an athlete persists in using such a technique, he will, in the interest of safety, be asked by the Chairperson of the Tournament Judges Commission to stop shooting immediately and to leave the course. The athlete must aim and draw up at the target only.
                      Note the term "High Draw" is not mentioned.
                      Archery's a lot like Life .... a few see it as an opportunity to score cheap points; while the rest are focused on the ends that count.
                      Genesis 21:20 And God was with the boy as he grew up in the wilderness. He became a skillful archer.

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                      • #12
                        These new rules are to apply at all levels, including club. So it will impact all of us.
                        And who is going to enforce something done at club level?
                        Urban Archery
                        Carbon Express
                        Beiter
                        Truball/Axcel
                        Redback Strings

                        Before enlightenment: Chop wood, carry water
                        After enlightenment: Chop wood, carry water

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Marcus View Post
                          And who is going to enforce something done at club level?
                          The folk that have to maintain the target butts?
                          "I used to read, but it's faster to make up stuff" - Wally (Dilbert)

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Matrix Makeover View Post

                            The folk that have to maintain the target butts?
                            We train our Recurve and Longbow archers to spread the wear around the butt and avoid the centre
                            Archery's a lot like Life .... a few see it as an opportunity to score cheap points; while the rest are focused on the ends that count.
                            Genesis 21:20 And God was with the boy as he grew up in the wilderness. He became a skillful archer.

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                            • #15
                              The wording of the new bow draw weight rule is somewhat incongruous to say the least.

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