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More than One button hole, what's the difference?

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  • More than One button hole, what's the difference?

    Some recurve risers have two button holes. I have read that moving the button from one position to the other can change the way the arrows respond and bring better results.In a way it gives the archer an extra tuning possibility. I cannot see why this should be the case but would really like to know how it works; if it is effective.
    I though the extra button hole was to give a more secure fit to the wrap around type rests.

  • #2
    It could depend on where the arrow node is compared to the button. If it's in the right place, the arrow may be changing direction at the point of initial flex, before it moves much. If the button contact point is before or after the node, the arrow will either push against, or pull away from the button.
    The problem is figuring out if it does actually apply in any specific case. It's easy to write some stuff in theory, but when the average archer's ability to hold a group is far larger than the effect that they're trying to ascertain, there isn't much point in saying one specific thing is happening.
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    • #3
      Thanks for that reply, I have been getting lost over this element of the tuning process( if it is used, that is)
      So, I can imagine the arrow at launch with the button to shaft contact being fairly close to the pile. If I also imagine the front node, my guess is it is behind the button so it will pass the button after it has travelled a few inches. For the front node to be further forward of the button before the launch starts, the pile would need to be a few inches beyond the button at full draw. I don't see normal archers shooting with that much overhang.
      I am confused about the arrow pulling away from the button during the first small movement forwards. I thought the first bend in the shaft was towards the button, and that was how the button could control the direction of the shot to some extent. If the shaft bends away from the button at the start of the travel, is there anything to prevent it from going anywhere it wants. I thought that thumb ring users found their arrows fly all over if they put the arrow on the normal side of their bow, because the thumb ring creates a first bend in the opposite direction from mediterranean loose.


      • #4
        I don't think the node is a very useful concept this early in the shot. The nodes are something which emerges in steady state vibrations and this is very much an initial transient behaviour.

        Without the force from the plunger button, the point of the arrow would keep going right (for a right handed archer). You can't actually take the plunger right out and do anything sensible, but it is the equivalent of a very weak plunger spring.

        I don't see anything which would make the point of the arrow go left, apart from the plunger itself that is. It is hard to explain, but at the time we are talking about, the arrow has rotated (clockwise looking down for a right handed archer) and is experiencing a moment from the string tending to rotate it further. It is the impulse from the plunger which counters that to (in a well tuned bow) produce a zero rotation rate.

        I doubt if putting the plunger button in the wrong hole has any noticeable effect, and any slight effect could be compensated by a very slight change in spring tension.

        I reckon your initial thought: the extra button hole was to give a more secure fit to the wrap around type rests, is correct.


        • #5
          iandall, thanks for your reply. I like getting my head round details of this sort. I find it helps me to sort out other associated aspects better, too.
          It is good to read your explanation of the initial movement of the arrow. Usually I read posts that just mention the flexing of the shaft. The rotation is probably more important when it comes to keeping the shaft in contact with the button during the early travel forwards. It would explain the opposite reaction of the arrow with a thumb ring release.
          So, to continue this further ,if I may, the flexing of the shaft tends to be a bend towards the button, so rotation and the bend are both adding pressure to the button. The bending causes the front of the shaft to eventually move away from the button, which starts the shaft on a rotation in the opposite direction( anticlockwise viewed from above a rh archer) added to by the button pressing back outwards.
          Does that sound about right?
          I can't imagine anything happening much different from that if the button is moved forwards into another hole. Different in detail, possibly; but a tweak on the button could bring the differences to zero or there abouts.