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  • #61
    Having watched the 3 available videos, I have no problem with culling animals for conservation and if it can be done humanely all the better. This kill by anybodies standards could not be classified as humane. After the shot "your certain I got it through the heart" The Bull elephant was tracked for at least 5 miles and theres indication that it was closer to 12 before it finally feel to the arrow or animals that had identified its vulnerability. I'm willing to except that an animal may travel a few hundred meters ( a few feet would be better) before expiring. But all this video shows is that a bowhunting elephants for pleasure is unethical..
    Facts reported from the video
    1. Heart/lung shot
    2. Tracked for 2+ days +3 days diplomatic delays
    3. Travelled >5miles after being shot
    4. Elephant was picked by the size of its ivory which ultimately was all that was harvested because the carcass had been eaten by other animals.

    This clearly identifies that a bow is not routinely (repeatable) capable of bring down an elephant in a humane way. Therefore bowhunting an Elephant could not be considered ethical regardless of the price paid to "Conservation"

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    • #62
      Hmm.

      By that definition though, firearms are no better.
      I know of plenty of instances were all kinds of large African animals have not instantly dropped to a seemingly well placed shot.

      The stories of what happened after that are generally horrific, yet if they are described by Peter Hathaway Capstick, are incredibly entertaining.

      If you guys have not read "Death in the Long Grass", you really should.

      It has a lot of stories about elephants winning.
      Status is not defined by the amount of gear in your signature.
      Performance cannot be purchased.

      "The Internet offers everything - except quality control" - K. Anders Ericsson.

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      • #63
        http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/africa/...ot-Roger-Gower

        Unfortunately the real thugs succeed too. Though good to see some were caught.

        A couple of nights ago I was dozing in and out of a program about NZ's longest running meat-works - comments from the workers ranged from a great place to work to "I see the guys that have been here a long time - I don't want to be one of them" - They were a happy bunch of people but I slept through any possible discussion about how they felt about knocking off animals.

        After that was a hunting program (rifle) - the upshot was the guy had a 400m lung shot on a deer (introduced species that impacts on native vegetation and animals). I was a bit surprised that it didn't immediately keel over, but did drop after a brief run - similar to what I had seen on the bowhunting DVD a got with one of my "target" bows.

        From that, agree with Andy's point above.

        Also - I do find it interesting how we "value" different animals - not saying it is right or wrong, but shows how "doing my bit for the overall preservation and enjoying it at the same time" to one person is "animal murderer" to another.

        Chris
        Last edited by Matrix Makeover; 1st February 2016, 11:53 AM. Reason: missing words!
        "I used to read, but it's faster to make up stuff" - Wally (Dilbert)

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        • #64
          One of the other interesting phenomena that I've noted is that people have a rather unrealistic concept of what bullets do in terms of instant death.

          There are many many instances on youtube of people getting shot and then running away. Generally though, these are people shot in the body with pistols.
          The statistics collected by Massad Ayoob is that you have about 80 percent chance of surviving being shot by a pistol. Surviving means not being killed. It doesn't elaborate on your quality of life.

          The one clear indication of the general public's expectations of the speed of death from being shot was really hammered home to me by one particular video from a security camera inside a garage.
          It's of an attempted carjacking.
          Clearly visible is the carjacker opening the door and discovering that he's pointing a pistol at someone inside pointing one back who opens fire at not even 2 metres range.

          Everyone sees people in the movies and TV instantly drop and this is what people expect. Bullets bodily lifting people up and hurling them backwards to instant death.

          This just doesn't happen.

          The shot carjacker runs off and the the comments below the video are all in the vein of "He had blanks in his gun followed up by bullets" or "He missed at that distance."

          Except someone managed to find photos of the carjacker dead in ICU. Same tattoos and multiple completely penetrating wounds.

          So don't assume that just because something gets shot that it won't run off and die (or alternatively and rather interestingly run towards what it has identified as being really annoying).

          I have personally witnessed bullet and arrow shot feral goats and pigs drop like a rock and also run off a short distance. I have even seen one goat get completely penetrated while drinking, lift it's head up and look at the arrow and then go back to drinking before slumping into the water.

          This is not uncommon with bowshot animals with proper razor sharp broadheads. I was told by one local deerhunter how he got a perfect side on shot to a deer, let go and the deer turned and looked at him.

          While he wondered what the hell was going on, the deer continued to feed. He figured he had somehow missed and was trying to sneak another arrow out when the deer fell over.

          Now, I don't know about you guys, but if I had a choice, I'd prefer to be shot with no pain and no idea of what was going on until I felt tired all of a sudden and lay down.
          Of course, I'd prefer not to be shot at all, but an instant death can't be guaranteed just by the use of firearms alone and the use of an arrow doesn't absolutely guarantee agonising prolonged death.

          Things just aren't that clear cut.
          Status is not defined by the amount of gear in your signature.
          Performance cannot be purchased.

          "The Internet offers everything - except quality control" - K. Anders Ericsson.

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          • #65
            Now a "cross-over" story for our friends in Vegas!

            http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farm...n-in-las-vegas

            Bit annoyed that could not see anywhere in the article any comment about the animals in NZ being introduced species that cause harm to native.
            I suspect my brother would be annoyed because to really conserve NZ natives, would need to 100% remove these introduced species - leaving nothing to hunt.
            "I used to read, but it's faster to make up stuff" - Wally (Dilbert)

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            • #66
              This is an old post but here's my 2 cents, I enjoy hunting and I consider myself too be ethical when I dispatch animals. I'd get absolutely no enjoyment out of shooting an elephant, let alone paying too do so. I'm not sure under what circumstances this guy went out to do this, but paying for a trophy and being taken directly too the animal too shoot it, there's no reward in that. Hunting is not only about the rewards at the end but the spot and stalk, tracking and getting close for an ethical shot, the whole experience. I really don't understand the mentality of paying for a trophy and being satisfied with that. Seems pretty piss weak.

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              • #67

                I read that in Africa, the elephant population is out of control and that they are destroying everything along the rivers that cause species like Kudu, Nyala and Bush buck and that they can die from lack of food it. also local kill elephants and all this meat is used by locals. I know an elephant that's been shot to eat, and it's just awful.
                Last edited by Lizzie; 4 days ago.

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